I agree with the principle that native speakers speech should be the bar , but it seems more complex than just what Native speakers do and don't use, for example with ham ive heard Liamhás and ham used . sometimes I notice as well that when native speakers are tying to speak better Irish, i.e. with as little English influence as possible they sometimes use a word they wouldn't commonly use.

Again lets say ham, they might commonly use the English word ham , but then if they are speaking to a class, on the radio or T.V. or somewhere else they might subconsciously feel like their Irish is being judged they might reach for words they don't commonly use.

Sometimes its obvious as in there is a slight halt or break in the sentence, but with others it isint, leaving you unsure of what is the commonly used word without asking, or spending the day hanging around the deli counter.

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Bíonn rudaí maithe mall

Sounds like they know they're giving speeches to people who are learners of Irish, and yet somehow think they know better than the native speakers, and so the native speakers add in a few made-up words they know the haughty learners will insist are "correct" Irish. It really is sad to do this to the native speakers. I wonder if Bríd Mhór has ever felt obliged to say things like "oigeann micreathonnach" in case non-native speakers start accusing her of having bad Irish.

Oh I wouldn't just say its unique to when they talk to us haughty learners, all though all the learners I know here in CD seem to take the stance that everything they learned before is wrong or potentially is.

Ive heard it on native speakers when they are interviewed for Radio and TV . I think its more like when I speak English to a class, group of people I don't know well, a interview, my grandparents etc. Ill try use words appropriate for the audience, remove any curses and band English I all to frequently employ, such as" I do be".

Think its similar for these speakers of Irish, they are aware the word they would use is English and so want to use what they might feel is a correct word in its place.

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Yes - I agree with all that. But I would add they feel to need to use what they not only feel to be "correct", but, more to the point, what they have been told is more correct by learners based in Dublin, including those on the Coiste Téarmaíochta.

Not all native speakers would have had the self-confidence shown by Feargal Ó Béarra when he criticised the Caighdeán word sláinteolaí déadach and embarrassed the CT into changing their recommended term for dental hygienist to sláinteolaí fiacla.

There are countless learners presenting Irish TV, and it communicates to the Gaeltacht that their Irish is a) worthless and b) incorrect, and so the Gaeltacht natives naturally feel (are made to feel) the words those who claim to be their betters in the media use are more correct.

You could even say the attitude towards native speakers is a civil rights issue in Ireland today. Why should the Gaeltacht natives have to sit at the back of the bus?

I suppose people adopt ones they feel work and leave out the more clunky terminology which doesn't suit.
It really depends from person to person it seems. Some people use the Irish month names, which I think had fallen out of use somewhat before being reintroduced through the schools and some use the English ones, which is more "correct" ? its hard to judge.

really depends on the context.

One thing I often see if the speaker doesn't have the vocabulary for something they switch to English, the conversation may then continue in English entirely or switch back later when the subject changes. Not sure if its a great thing for a language to be short so many modern terms in general usage. Obviously the idea of having non native coin new terms alone is highly questionable.

And just before anyone accuses me of snooping on peoples conversations, ill stick my hand up and admit it. But only really to see how things are said, not really whats being said.

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Bíonn rudaí maithe mall

http://www.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f= ... 15&start=0

The article from Fearghal Ó Béarra

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hmm whats the Irish for Déjá vu

im beginning to feel im a bit of a broken record. maybe we should have a separate part of the forum for our discussions on the social/political factors which surround the language.

I

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Bíonn rudaí maithe mall

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No I've never used "oigeann micreathonnach" in my life. Nor "liamhás" either.

But I do try to curb my use of Béarlachas depending on who the listener is. Regrettably I do use many English words when there are perfectly good natural Irish ones, I know it's something I shouldn't do. Maybe that's laziness.

There are also other words that I wouldn't want to use, like those newly coined words that sound artificial and stilted.

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It is recommended that you always wait for three to agree on a translation.
I speak Connemara Irish, and my input will often reflect that.
I will do an mp3 file on request for short translations.
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I wouldn't be too hard on yourself, Bríd. For me it seems normal to mix a little, especially when people speaking have more than one common language. We speak four languages at home and mix to the point of absurdity amongst ourselves.

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Ultach mé agus Gaeilg Uladh a labhraim go measardha maith!