It is currently Wed 08 Apr 2026 10:59 am

All times are UTC


Forum rules


Please click here to view the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon 23 Aug 2021 9:32 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri 08 Jan 2016 11:37 pm
Posts: 279
tiomluasocein wrote:
The pdf also has "Téacs" for every chapter whereas it should read "Ceacht", according to Doyle's audio. There are a few other places that don't match up as well.


Yeah, since I only transcribed the reading texts, I changed the header from Ceacht to Téacs. I have the second edition, if there are some other mismatches in the texts (didn’t listen through it all), I wonder whether the text changed between the two editions (the second one was published in 2005, so presumably after the recordings were made).


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue 24 Aug 2021 10:58 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu 01 Sep 2011 11:36 pm
Posts: 687
silmeth wrote:
tiomluasocein wrote:
The pdf also has "Téacs" for every chapter whereas it should read "Ceacht", according to Doyle's audio. There are a few other places that don't match up as well.


Yeah, since I only transcribed the reading texts, I changed the header from Ceacht to Téacs. I have the second edition, if there are some other mismatches in the texts (didn’t listen through it all), I wonder whether the text changed between the two editions (the second one was published in 2005, so presumably after the recordings were made).


Oh I see. Thanks for the explanation. :D


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue 07 Sep 2021 1:49 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri 08 Jan 2016 11:37 pm
Posts: 279
djwebb2021 wrote:
silmeth wrote:
(…)
¹ there is a snippet from Ua Laoghaire’s Mo Scéal Féin there too, but weirdly edited to the textbook’s form, with do’n fhear changed to don bhfear, etc. :(


(…) Yes, the altering of Ua Laoghaire's Irish was a quibble I had - you just can't do this. Should I teach Shakespeare translated into some other form of English? You can't do that. But it is churlish not to admit that, apart from being in Polish only, this is very near to being a perfect textbook.


I’ve found this edition of Mo Scéal Féin published by Brún agus Ó Nualláin with author attributed on the cover as Peadar Ó Laoghairehttps://www.siopaleabhar.com/tairge/mo- ... -athlaimh/ – which seems heavily ‘standardized’ from the scans on siopaleabhar, eg. ar Ghaeil (instead of Ghaelaibh) or fé chosa a námhad. I think they might have just quoted directly from this version (so the fault here might not be theirs… or it is, but not in ‘standardizing’ but just by choosing this particular edition of the text – though I can’t confirm it’s exactly the same as the passage in the textbook).

But I find it likely, since they seem to list this edition in their reading list recommendation in a footnote on page 18 (“P. Ó. Laoghaire, Mo Scéal Féin, Longman Brún agus Ó Nualláin, Dublin”).


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue 07 Sep 2021 2:16 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 27 May 2021 3:22 am
Posts: 1725
silmeth wrote:
I’ve found this edition of Mo Scéal Féin published by Brún agus Ó Nualláin with author attributed on the cover as Peadar Ó Laoghairehttps://www.siopaleabhar.com/tairge/mo- ... -athlaimh/ – which seems heavily ‘standardized’ from the scans on siopaleabhar, eg. ar Ghaeil (instead of Ghaelaibh) or fé chosa a námhad. I think they might have just quoted directly from this version (so the fault here might not be theirs… or it is, but not in ‘standardizing’ but just by choosing this particular edition of the text – though I can’t confirm it’s exactly the same as the passage in the textbook).

But I find it likely, since they seem to list this edition in their reading list recommendation in a footnote on page 18 (“P. Ó. Laoghaire, Mo Scéal Féin, Longman Brún agus Ó Nualláin, Dublin”).


That version is not an authorised version of Ua Laoghaire's biography. Ua Laoghaire would not have approved. I've heard that that edition simply deleted the entire section of Mo Sgéal Féin where Ua Laoghaire states that he regards "do bhíos" as better than "bhí mé". The passage (in my edition, which I aim to publish):

Quote:
B’fhéidir go raibh an Ghréigis ní b’fheárr ná í nuair a bhí an Ghréigis beó agus muíntir na Gréige dhá labhairt, ach ní raibh ar mo chumas‑sa an chúmparáid a dhéanamh ach amháin idir mo Ghaelainn bheó féin agus an Ghréigis a fuaras in sna leabhraibh; agus chómh fada agus ’ chuaigh an chúmparáid sin bhí an bua ageam Ghaelainn féin. Is dócha go ndéarfadh duine a tógadh in áit eile, nú i gcúig’ eile, in Éirinn, an rud céanna i dtaobh Gaelainne na cúige gur tógadh é féin ann. Ach tá roinnt nithe againn chun an scéil do bhrath. Sarar fhágas‑sa Lios Caragáin níor airíos riamh amach a béal duine na habartha so, .i. tá mé; bhí mé; bhí siad. D’airínn i gcónaí táim; bhíos; bhíodar, &c. Nithe beaga is ea iad san, ach is nithe beaga iad a thagann isteach go mion minic sa chainnt. Agus is slacht ar an gcainnt an módh dlúite seochas an módh scurtha. Ar an gcuma gcéanna, is neamh‑shlacht ar an gcainnt an módh scurtha seochas an módh dlúite. Dá éaghmais sin, bíonn sa chainnt dhlúite neart agus fuinneamh nách féidir a bheith sa chainnt a bhíonn ag titim as a chéile.


(Of course, the notion that Greek was no longer was quite erroneous.)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu 03 Oct 2024 9:57 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed 17 Jul 2024 5:15 pm
Posts: 37
The mp3 files of the recordings for "Teach Yourself Irish" aren't easily findable, so I decided to publish them on archive.org.
I also added files for shadowing and repeating after the recording that I made for my own use. I hope you find them as useful as I have.
https://archive.org/details/TeachYourse ... Recordings


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 02 Aug 2025 11:04 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed 17 Jul 2024 5:15 pm
Posts: 37
I made a parallel texts of Séadna for my own use a long time ago.
I've just uploaded it to archive.org here: https://archive.org/details/seadna-ga-en. I hope it will be as useful to you as it was to me!
BTW I prepared a parallel texts of Mo Sgéal Féin too. Iʻd share it publicly, but the English translation by Cyril Ó Céirín is still under copyright. Just message me and I'll be happy to send it to you. Nb. the translation comprises just over 80% of the original.
MSF is easier to read than Séadna, as pointed out by An Lon Dubh, and its recording is freely available as well.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun 03 Aug 2025 12:12 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu 27 May 2021 3:22 am
Posts: 1725
Gréasaghas, that is great work, and I think it will help many people. My comments on the English in Shiana are not a criticism of your parallel-language edition, but I'm just looking at the type of English that was in Shiana, the authorised English translation. It is in very poor English. Maybe this is how the first generation of people in the Gaeltacht to learn English imagined that English was spoken. Nevertheless, the translations there could give an idea of the meaning, without always being in correct English.

In Ch1:

Quote:
He had a soogaun1 chair which he had made for himself, and he used to sit in it in the evening when the day's work was done, and when he sat in it he was very comfortable. He had a malvogue of meal hanging up near the fire, and now and then he used to put his hand into it and take a handful of the meal, and chew it at his leisure. He had an apple-tree growing outside his door, and when he used to be thirsty from chewing the meal he would put his hand into the tree and take one of the apples, and eat it.


This is not how "used to" is used in English. "Used to" describes a habitual action in the past that is no longer true. He used to sit there in the evenings, but he doesn't now. These should be "he would sit" and "he would put" and "when he was thirsty". In particular, "when" coupled with "used to" sounds bad - the point is made at https://forum.wordreference.com/threads ... o.3698274/ that this combination is one that English teachers recommend English learners to avoid. "When he was thirsty" or "whenever he was thirsty" is correct.

Quote:
The next person that sits in it, except myself, may he stick in it !


"Stick" is transitive. This must be "get stuck".

And so on through the book. It's as if the translator had never met a native speaker of English.

Let's look at Ch21, as that is the chapter I'm in in an edition I'm preparing:

Quote:
Whatever it was that put her eye out, the woman who came to Dermot was blind of one eye.


Blind ***in**** one eye.

Quote:
they said the priest ought to be sent for before nightfall for fear the man might get bad


"Get bad?" Have a turn for the worse.

Quote:
I know where she was born and reared, and a bad rearing she was


She had a bad upbringing.

Quote:
It is no good for me to be at them.


This is a literal translation from Irish and doesn't mean anything in English. It is a waste of time hassling them over it?

Quote:
Or how did she find out that Sive was from home ?


"From home" doesn' t have the required meaning in English. Away from home?

Quote:
the terrible work that was done here on the fair day


The terrible carry-on here on the day of the fair. ("The fair day" means nothing, or maybe, at a pinch, it means a day when the weather is fair.)

Quote:
she would get a hand-reach' of money out of you


Means nothing in English. A donation?

Quote:
" It does not matter a pin," said the priest.


There is no such phrase in English. Does not matter a jot?

Quote:
Sive had met a bad companion


Fallen into bad company.

Quote:
I would not be at all surprised myself if there turned out to be a spice of truth in the rumour.


There is no such phrase in English. A kernel of truth?

Quote:
If they are married it will be red war with them as long as they live.


No such phrase in English. Ructions?

Quote:
there is not a woman living to-day on the dry land of Ireland


No such phrase in English. Anywhere on Irish soil?

Quote:
Cut off my ear if she doesn't.


No such phrase in English. I'll eat my hat?

Quote:
With that, who should walk in at the door to them but the big tinker.


Walk IN THE DOOR, not "walk in at the door".

These are the main errors in Ch21 only - there are dozens of other sentences in that chapter that would need to be rewritten entirely in English.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 03 Apr 2026 7:39 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed 17 Jul 2024 5:15 pm
Posts: 37
A short summary of resources I prepared below. I hope they will be useful to you. They were, and are, for me.
  1. 3 parallel texts:
    1. Aesop a Tháinig go hÉirinn 1-9 (parallel text ga-en; quite simple; good for beginners) (https://archive.org/details/aesop-a-tha ... -ga-en-1-9)
    2. Séadna (parallel text ga-en) [mentioned above] (https://archive.org/details/seadna-ga-en)
    3. An t-Oileánach (parallel text ga-en) [v0.1, so a sentence here and there might be misaligned] (https://archive.org/details/oileanach-ga-en)
  2. Audio for Teach Yourself Irish (1961, i.e. the Munster dialect) with tracks for shadowing and repeating-after-the-recording added (https://archive.org/details/TeachYourse ... Recordings)
  3. An Anki deck of Munster Irish Conjugation (https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/2028442980): the verb 'to be' and the 2 conjugations (more info in the description of the deck).
I've also made a parallel texts of Mo Scéal Féin [mentioned above], but the English translation (“My Story”, transl. Cyril Ó Céirín) is in copyright, so I'd rather not upload it on archive. Just write me an email: greasaias at most-popular-email-service, and I'll send it to you, a putative owner of the book, for personal use.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1374 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group